PUTHENCRUZ: The consecration of Ramban Geevarghese Thengumtharayil to the episcopate as Geevarghese Mar Barnabas was conducted at the headquarters of Jacobite Syrian Church- Puthencruz Dayara on February 1, 2010 by the Sreshta Catholicos Baselios Thomas I and the Holy Episcopal Synod of Jacobite Church.
Metropolitan was a student of Kottayam Orthodox Theological Seminary and a batch mate of Dr. Yuhanon Mar Chrysostomos, Mathews Mar Theodosius, Nathaniel Ramban and Fr. Dr. M. O. John. He was in charge of Panayampala Bala Bhavan for many years since its inception as a very dedicated worker. According to the Metropolitan he left the Malankara Orthodox Church for the politics and undercurrent tactics played by the leaders of the Malankara Orthodox Church.
The new Metropolitan is a strict monk, very straight person, dedicated his life to the ministry of the Lord. He had handed over his family properties to the Church and started Mt. Moria Ashram there. At Keekozhur, Metropolitan founded Mar Gregorian Study center to inspire the youngsters of the church to learn more on spirituality.
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Congratulation to my dear old friend Thirumeni and my best wishes.
Your old classmate in seminary
Fr.Shebaly
Congrats and best wishes to His Grace Dr.Geevarghese Mar Barnabas Metropolitan. May God Almighty shower all the blessings.
http://www.indianchristianity.org
Congratulations and best wishes to H.G.Mar Barnabas Metropolitan.
Benny Achen
I would have not responded if I had not seen these words in your news, …. he left the Malankara Orthodox Church for the politics and undercurrent tactics played by the leaders of the Malankara Orthodox Church…What a forgone conclusion?
Many Priests like Rev. Frs. O.P. Varghese, V.J, Thomas, M.S.John., M.O.John etc. who have not yet been lucky to become a Bishop have not yet realized this. Does this mean only a strict monk, very straight person, who dedicated his life to the ministry of the Lord who shift camps to establish centers to inspire the youngsters of the church to learn more on spirituality, will realize such undercurrent tactics? Or is it because the said priests are reluctant to handover their properties to the Church?
Can you name an individual of the MOC or MJC who has not had a bad experience from their church in one way or the other? How many are still facing this and will face this? Why leave Priests, what about laymen? For them it is no undercurrent, it is direct current. That reminds me of a story that Edayanalachen says. The people blame the priest, the priest blames the bishop, the bishop blames the Catholicos and the Catholicos blames God and the blaming game continues.
Now our innocent faithful will say, See what an impressive personality, he would have become our Bishop!
100% u r right varghese mathew.epol 2004 randle nashttam,namkayi matty,enthe aishwariyum anne aa thirumeniyude muhathe.thejomayam aya mukham,athu oru deiva kripa anne, 6 varshathine shesham deiva kripayal nashttapettathe nanmmakayi theerthu ,all for the best,ellam nanmakayi swargathathen chezitheedunnu,nirnayamvili kettavarkkum,deivathinesneham arijnavarkkum.
ethupole palarum povum,ee naanamketta rashtriyum kalikumbol.epol palarude mukhathe jhalyatha ayirikkum.
sorry Mr.Varghese & amp;Mr.George,try to understand the real fact.Please make a comparison between our Bishops candidates and Geevarghese Ramban. Did you think that he had more support in our community. Did you know how many of our members know his name.I am belong to the same district of Ramban. I heard his name only when he left from church. I cannot able to see any more quality in him than the other candidates. Members at that time even Christaporus Ramban didn’t get enough vote.It means that candidates at that time is more qualified.
The procedure of the bishop candidate election in our community was too good as the others.It is a real fact.In other church,their patron or influencing people decide a name .But here people select their right candidates.
Before that please check,how many of Jacobite friends know the name of Geevarghese Ramban. That shows their selection procedure is faulty.
All the Best Thirumeni
Ellam daiva namma mahatwathinnu aaayi theeratte
I pray come that great day when this two Sabha will be one body in Christ.
Fr.George Abraham, Doha – Qatar
Dear in Christ,
Its very shame to Puthernkurize society. Fr. Geevarghese tried 3 times in Indian Orthodox Church for bishop selection, at last he left our church. I am also from his same district. We never heard about this priest. In indian Orthodox Church there are lot of steps and Screaning for Bishops selection( Its not easy to become a bishop with in 2 days as Puthenkurize societys drama) . Now in Puthenkurize , bishop selection is also like Chevelior, Commander etc. ( Fr. Shebaly & Fr. Punchakonam knows A to Z of our Bishop selection. Now he is closing his eyes and he is sending Congratulations to his old class mate. ) Our Church is more than a friend.How can we immagine 31 bishops for a Ernakulam Ditsrict based soceity ?.ITS SHAME FOR OUR CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY!!!
Dear All,
The newly consecrated bishop of patriarchal faction -Mar Barnabas Geeverghese- had served for a while in St.Thomas Orthodox Church, Alleppey when he was a priest. I was there at that time. In 1982, when the holy Church celebrated the 70th anniversary(Sapthathi) of the establishment of the Catholicate, under his leadership the parishioners went for a rally held in Kottayam. On our way, we all were shouting slogans in one voice. He was in the lead. One of the slogans was thus: “Andhyokyayude melkoyma, Arabikadalil.”. The shouting voice of Jacob Varghese achen(Barnabas thirumeni) still echoes in my ears. I wonder how come a staunch Orthodox celibate priest relinquished his mother church and embraced its waring faction and became a bishop there? If he were straight forward, he would have the patience to wait for until he was selected by our Malankara Association. Instead, he opted rather a perverted way. He has now earned his bishopric post by offering his wealth to the other faction. Wasn’t it a simonic sin? What integrity he showed as a dedicated and disciplined son of the holy church? He owes much to the holy church more than what the church owes him. He is now what because of the holy Malankara Orthodox Church. Can anyone nagate this fact? A monk is and is supposed to be chaste, obedient and poor. Was he a disciplined disciple of Christ Jesus? He can never be equated with Mar Osthathios or Mar Gregorios. When they were elected in 1963, their selection was vetoed by the then catholicose. They did not resent on that action, instead, they patiently yielded to the will of God until they got elected as bishops for the the second time in 1974. There lies their dignity. It is a fate of the church that most of the celibate priests in our holy church, though they claim that they have relinguished everything, covet this prime position in our church. It is my humble suggestion, since almost all the celibate priests long for bishopric post, why cann’t every celibate priests be elevated as episcopas ? If it is done so, we can avoid periodic Associaion meetings and thus we will be able to save lots of money. Let those, who long for becoming bishop, bring their wealth at the feet of the holy synod and get consecrated. What we bind on earth will be bound in heaven!
With prayers,
George Achen,Ireland.
Ramban Thengumtarayil joined the jacobite faction and got elevated as a metropolitan.My doubt is whether this metropolitan if coming back to our orthodox faction with an apology in future will the orthodox faction accept him.
Dear all,
What the newly ordained Mar Banabas thirumeni(formerly Jacob Varghese achen) did on 1 February 2010 was swallowing what he vomited to the sea of Arabia in 1982. We can expect many more such things in the days to come. If things go like this how can we have an organised system of church adminstration? Anyway, I wish him all success and Godspeed in his minisitry. If his elevation as a bishop has been the will of God, I too yield to His will. God bless us all.
George achen,Ireland.
Dear Manu:
Yes I know this Metropolitan as my class mate and very personally. I can tell you that he is a very dedicated person and he is the one with no lies in him. He is the one who built the Panayampala Bala Bhavan in all sense. He is a very caring and loving personality.
Many of us are clever to speak well. But how many of us are willing to work for the kingdom of heaven. Those who speak well be known to others and they get positions here.
Please do not be so fanatic. Malankara Church is one. The other faction is our brethren. We may have difference of opinions. Still have the same faith, same priesthood. Talking ill of the priesthood is insulting God who is the high priest. Do not judge.
We are fighting and fighting. What for? Do you think that the ever loving God the father loves us only and hate the other faction?
Think about how God is paining when His children are fighting for no reasons and deviating from his purposes, for worldly assets? Is that the Kingdom of God is all about? Do we have a real love that Jesus showed us?
I pray for my Malankara Church, not as Catholicose or Patriarchal faction, but as my church. I respect all the hierarchy of my church.
My dream is one day we all will be one again. Then God our father will reign over us as in the past.
shebaly achen
By publishing a news such as this on your website you are supporting the dissident faction. He might the classmate of the priests who commented but has left the Holy Church for temporal positions. Priests need to be obedient to the bishops. Oh well it cant be expected when the priests in USA run their own Inc and LLC churches
Philip Varghese, New Castle
I know Jacob Varghese in his seminary days. Yes, to a certain extent he was frustrated with the church politics that led him to leave the “church of his upbringing” to another group within his Church of origin. He was in America for a short period of time and left unsatisfied. Indeed he takes his calling very dear and do all the hard work to live up to his mission. May God bless him to serve and bring reconciliation between the groups. There is still hope to see a “United Indian Orthodox Church”.
Joy Achen
Whoever wrote this news does not know what he is talking about. He, the former Fr. Jacob Varghese, destroyed many parishes while he was in our Church. He was kicked out of several dicoeses before joining Chengannur diocese. Mangalam Church (the home parish Mor Geevargheese Ivanios) was singlehandedly destroyed by this prelate. Please get your facts straight before publishing something absurd. He left our church because lost the election in 2004. There is no doubt that the Jacobite Church has produced some great bishops in the last few years. However, I doubt this is one of them.
Dn Geevargheese, New York
It is good practice to find the goodness in others instead of tarnishing one’s reputation. Deacon, people leave and join any religion or political party according to their conviction. Administrative disagreement with diocese/parish or priest is not a criterion to destroy any individual. I do know Mr. Jacob Varghese and later Jacob Varghese Achen well enough to say that he was a dedicated individual to his calling. Leaving a faction joining another faction is not something new to us. We do have bishops once launched cross-fights with us with similar slogans. Slogans are emotional ideas not rational.
As stated earlier, let’s hope and pray that “one day our unity will be restored” and the church will be one again to carry out his mission.
Joy Achen
News is news. The facts are reported well. It is published under the world news and not church news. If it was an article we could have write different perspectives.
News is covering the event. That is what we have done.
As you said, then why the Mangalam parishioners joined with them and left the church. Are the parishioners all foolish, If my information is correct.
If there are factual errors in this report, please send us the details we will correct it.
The reason for leaving the church is his own words, not IOH’s.
The comment section for the readers. You can post your opinion.
Editor
Dearest Achens,
The news that Managalam Church people left comes from the other group. I know personally that nobody left Mangalam Church with him. In fact, the only person that went with him is one of his disciples from the dayara. I also agree with Joy Achen who says, “Administrative disagreement with diocese/parish or priest is not a criterion to destroy any individual.” I have no intention to destroy this individual. I speak of what I know, seen and I have ample evidence to back up my claim. Nonetheless, I am not going to get into a “war of words” with my older Achens. Forgive me, if I have spoken ill of your batchmate. My loyalty is to Christ and His Church. May God bless the newly ordained shepherd.
Dn Geevargheese, NY
Chemmachen:
You said that My loyalty is to Christ and His Church.
Which Church? Malankara Orthodox Church?
This is our problem. If we reinterpret Christ Jesus words as Malankara Orthodox Church, then we will be nowhere.
The bible never instigate others to be fanatics. The true Christianity never spread hatred, instead love and love only.
shebaly achen
Dearest Achen,
I truly believe the Orthodox Church is Christ’s Church. The Jacobites are also fully Orthodox; I never claimed they were not. This is not a Jacobite vs. Orthodox debate. This is simply about Geevargheese Mor Barnabas (the former Fr. Jacob Vargheese).
Dn Geevargheese
Dear Rev.Dn.Geevarghese,
What you mean “The Church”. You are thinking only about The Malankara Orthodox Church. If you are loyal to “Christ and His Church” you should work and pray for the unity of the Church.
We have to accept others. That is what Jesus said, “love your enemies, bless them that curse you,do good to them that curse you, and pray for them.” (Matt:5:44).
We know what is going on in our church.Some leaders (the self proclaimed king-makers) are not interested in skilful, knowledgeable and challenging personalities like Fr.Dr.M.O John and Very Rev.Dr.Yoohanon Remban, to lead the Church. Why they are avoided, only because of the dirty politics among “some” leaders. Once they “may” realize and repent. So please…..
Fr.Johnson Punchakonam
http://www.indianchristianity.org
I dont know why the so fanatics in our church are making such a fuss about this. Where was the so called election process when we ordained Bishop Gurgan. All peace lovers in our church will see this as a positive development. This only to atain unity is by having peace first and this could only happen when we interact with each other. Didnt we acept Bishops from Jacobite side when they crossed over. And they did some great things for our church. Try to see further then your noses.
Congratulations to Barnabas Thirumeni,the newly ordained Metropolitan in the Malankara Church
According to the Supreme court Judjument there is only one Church- one patriarch and one Catholicose. But two groups The faith is one, the traditions are one, the liturgy is one and so on But the administration is different. The Jacobite think that their administration is better. Thre is simony and bribe in both sides. There you give cash to one Bishop Here now you give to the bishops in the screening committee
There is no harm in moving from one side to other according to convictions. That is what history teaches us
Why Nicholovas Thirumeni changed the side ?
Why Athanasuiose thirumeni of Kandanadu and Milithiose thirumeni of Thrissur changed side.?
Does the Holy Catholicos and the Holy Synod approve it. Mar Nicholovas, Mar Athanasiose and Mar Milithiose became what they are only because of the Jacobite Church.They aslo wrote many things and shouted slogans agaist the Catholicose . Fr. T. George, Manu and all others who criticise Mar Barnabas are just ignoring facts and history. Why they cant criticise these bishops using same rule or scale
Augen Bava changed side from the Ptriarchal group to Catholicose group. There are so many priests who were in the Patriarchal group changed side after 1958. Seminary Malpan Koruthu Achan, Konattu Malpan, Mannaraprayil Cor Episcopa Edayanal Cor Episcopa, Nooranal Achan were all in the Ptriarchal group.
Paulose Mar Gregoriose and Mar Osthathiose were veetoed by the Holy Synod. If the division would not have occured in our church again in 1971 they may not have been selected again for bishops post.
The whole process, the screening,the voting in Screening committe, the voting at Managing committee etc. have becom real politics in our Church That is why Fr. Dr. M.O.John, Fr.M.S. John , Fr. O.P.Varghese, Fr. P.C. Thomas, Fr. Titus George etc. were not selected. Fr. Dr. M.O.John is well known in all our Churches in both sides. He was denyed seat because of the personal rivalry of some leaders. And you call it Gods will. Then this is also Gods will. That is why Mar Barnabas! Congratulations to Barnabas!! Let more and more Barnabas come up as good lessons to our Holy Church.
Dear Father Geevarghese,
Vattankunnel Bava Thirumeni’s father, Kurien Kathanaar, had been the vicar of Mannarcad Church for a very long time. When he passed away (I believe this was in the 1940′s), it was the desire of Mr. V.K. Mathews (Vattakunnel Bava) that he be buried at Mar Elijah Cathedral in Kottayam. However, the faithful of Mannarcad Church requested the family to have Kurien Achen buried in Mannarcad. Initially, members of Kurien Achen’s family resisted. Eventually, they succumbed to the request of the Mannarcad Church members. Mr. V.K. Mathews remained strongly against the decision. Being the youngest member of the family, he eventually had to consent to decision of his family. HOWEVER, HE DID NOT ATTEND THE FUNERAL OF HIS FATHER OUT OF MERE PRINCIPLE.
Let this be very clear. The first time Vattakunnel Bava Thirumeni visited his father’s grave was when the CHURCH was unified [only after 1958].
Dear Fr.Shebaly/ Fr. Geevarghese,
May be i am fanatic. This is my own Churh,. This is our St. Thomas Church. This is our Jesus Christs Church.So i am fanatic in this. I want to ask one simple question . Did any body from Puthenkurizeu side, same like Fr. Thengumtharayil( New Mar Branabas) to Our Indian Orthodox Church , what will happen? Our H.H can able to give maximum a Ramban or a Ramaban Cor Episcopa.Do you think any body will become Bishop with out Malankara Association Election. This is the main difference between us and them.(Becuase of Our Great Malankara Sabha Bhasuran ST.DIONYSIUS( Vattaseril Thirumeni) , we recvd a beautiful constitution( 1934) ) I am accepting our church is not a POLITICS FREE CHURCH. There are politics. We need leaders like H.H. VATTAKUNNEL BAVA.(H.H. BASELIUS MARTHOMA MATHEWS 1). Please pray for that!!
Dear Dn.Geevarghese,
We need deacon like you. Now i am happy there are youngsters also supporting the truth. Yes VattakunneL Bava is a great leader.
Dear Geevarghese Achen
Augen Bava and others changed the faction when they realised the real fact in 1958,similarly Dr Athanasios,Dr Milithios,Mar Nicolovas changed faction knowing the true fact through the supreme court verdict in 1995.But here Thengumtharayil changed faction to get elevated as a bishop,his hunger for power and position,which his mentor Osthathios thirumeni never had.Also church should have bold leaders like vattasseril thirumeni,kuruchi bava,vattakunnel bava.Let us hope the same attitude of these leaders with atleast the catholicos elect milithios thirumeni.after him the strong person is Severios Thirumeni,Eusebios thirumeni.
Dear Geevarghese Achen,
First of all, let me make it clear that I have no personal grudge to Barnabas thirumeni. When he was my vicar in St.Thomas Orthodox Church, Alleppey, I was a great admirer of him for he had many virtues. But now I lament on him just because he has forsaken his integrity. Let me ask you, on what ‘principle’ he moved on to the other faction. You know that he was a man who was not selected as bishop in the Malankara Association which hapens to be the decision making body of the holy Church. Had he been veetoed by the synod after having been selected in the Malanaka Association, I would have supported him morally atleast.
Don’t equate him with HH Augen bava, Mor Milithios, Mor Athanasios, Mor Nicholovas. They stood for a ‘Principle’. Their decision was ideological. What they did was accepting the 1934 constitution of the Holy Church as per the directions from the Apex Court of India in 1995. They took this drastic step for a noble cause- the dream of a United Orthodox Church in India. They dreamt of Peace in our holy Church and wanted a streamlining in the adminstrative system in the Malankara Sabha. I don’t think they joined us not to achieve any position here. They had been enjoying many more privileges in patriarchal faction than what they enjoy here today. Yet as part of the collective decision of their former group, they agreed to and still stand firm. This is what they did. For that they are suffering a lot from within and outside of the church. What Barnabas thirumeni did was merely for personal gain and not for the common good. I fear what is going to happen in Kerala is a ‘flood of bishops’. The Patriacrchal faction in Kerala with a skeleton membership can claim to their credit a number of 31 bishops without much things to do. “Unemployed biships” if I borrow the words of their faithful believers. If things go like this, we can see in the near future a bishop for each parish. What a novel idea it is, Is n’t it?
God bless,
George Achen,Ireland.
honestly,
don’t behave like a bunch or jokers fighting over some divide that makes absolutely no sense. There is no divinity or any kinds in either of the church, given that the factions can do a lot more for humanity than spend time and money over some power struggle, weather it is catholicose from east or west.
I don’t think the bible has anything to do with either in this fight…its presided by a few people who want to stay important…
Johny
dear Dear Fr.Shebaly/ Fr. Geevarghese, i like to talk with both of u in my personal email here it is aruncabraham86@gmail.com
dear brother manu do u think that augen only know the truth after 1958 do u know the exact meaning of supreme court verdict. please study about it from the person who are not biased. iam oursider of this church i know that there is more politics in orthdox fraction tan the syriac orthodox. do u think that nicholas came to church because of the truth? ny answer is a big no. all are power hunger.
Fr T George shall i ask the same doing inside your church that now the orthodox facton decided to have 7 bishops what about it brother? brother you are mistake the his holiness was planning to take an action against Mor Nicholas that is why he quickly jumped to the orthodox faction the similar thing to Mor Milithios
Yes, what George Achen, Ireland said is indeed correct.
I quote him ” Don’t equate him with HH Augen bava, Mor Milithios, Mor Athanasios, Mor Nicholovas. They stood for a ‘Principle’. Their decision was ideological. What they did was accepting the 1934 constitution of the Holy Church as per the directions from the Apex Court of India in 1995. They took this drastic step for a noble cause- the dream of a United Orthodox Church in India. They dreamt of Peace in our holy Church and wanted a streamlining in the adminstrative system in the Malankara Sabha. I don’t think they joined us not to achieve any position here. They had been enjoying many more privileges in patriarchal faction than what they enjoy here today. Yet as part of the collective decision of their former group, they agreed to and still stand firm. This is what they did. For that they are suffering a lot from within and outside of the church. What Fr. Jacob Thengumtharayil did to become a “Barnabas thirumeni” was merely for personal gain and not for the common good.
Indeed, as the saying goes ‘Failures are the stepping stones to success’.
When otherwise everything was getting along fine but blaming someone else when one is not successful is an unhealthy way of viewing failures, rather than it being “what was it that I lacked that lead to my failure and correcting my failure to make it a stepping stone to success the next time”.
Running away to ‘somehow achieve ones own goal’ is self-interest and cowardly.
Yes, there are lapses in all electoral systems and our electoral system is no different. Each time a lapse is noticed, that has to be refined and refined to achieve better results. What we need is contribution by all, especially the candidates who was unsuccessful to come out to testify what went wrong with the electoral system and to give positive suggestions to correct the defects in future, rather than being disgusted and running away for personal gains. If that was the case, after each electoral process we would have had a flock of migrants I don’t know to which all destinations? We need young dedicated people like Dn.Geevarghese, who one day would be in the forefront standing for Principles.
Again HH Augen Bava, H.G. Mor Milithios, H.G. Mor Athanasios, H.G. Mor Nicholovas, they stood for a ‘Principle’. Their decision was ideological. They took this drastic step for a noble cause- the dream of a United Orthodox Church in India and not for personal benefits.
Rgds,
Philip Abraham,
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
please prayer for unity of our chruch
Dear George Achen,
Moosa Gurgan Mor Severious from Syriac Orthodox Church, Germany was ordained as bishop by His Grace Dr. Thomas Mar Athanasios Metropolitan of Kandanadu Diocese & His Grace Dr. Yoohanon Mar Milithios of Trichur Diocese, of the Malankara Orthodox Church. He left Syriac Orthodox Church quarrelling with former Metropolitan of the archdiocese of Europe Mor Julius Yeshu Cicek. The Monk Moosa Gurgan was expelled by the Late Syriac Orthodox Archbishop Mor Yulius Cicek for indiscipline. He then joined a Roman Catholic Monastery. Now the new Bishop is being installed for a new autocephelous church named the Syriac Orthodox Archdiocese of Europe. If this new archdiocese will be completely independent or will be under the Catholicose of the Indian Orthodox Church is not known and is not clarified yet. Is he accepted 1934 constitution…..?
You said “They stood for a ‘Principle’. Their decision was ideological.” …What ‘Principle’?…What ‘ideology’ ..?
We have a strong procedure for electing a bishop. Is there any special rule to ordain a Bishop by two bishops and some priests without the knowledge the Managing Committee and the Malankara Association? They violate all the procedures of the Holy Church.
. I could say it is the sad chapter of our church history or the “dark days” of our church. Two (junior) bishops ordaining another bishop without the approval of Malankara Association. (Remember, these two Bishops were not elected by the Malankara Association) It is a blatant disregard for our constitution and a deliberate action of two newcomers with some ulterior motives. Who knows that they want to form a third faction within the Malankara Orthodox church? Bishop consecration is the job of the Holy Synod, but the election of a bishop is the right of the people (Malankara Association). In this case, no constitution was followed. (We did not follow any constitution to accept the defected bishops from the other faction. We need to develop constitutional provisions to deal with such situation)
Goal does not justify the means. These bishops with their adherence to Marxian philosophy used that materialistic thinking to justify their action. They must have persuaded the hierarchy to that end, who knows?
Recently we accepted Fr Eldhose Koungampillil from London, now he was ordained as a Cor Episcopa by Bishop Moosa Gurgan Mor Severios. All these things are happened because of the politics in both factions.
We have a failed unusual system of administration. We impose the constitution on poor faithful members and clergy but never read it when it comes to an action by a bishop. For example, seminary training is mandatory to ordination but many of our clergy were ordained at the will of their bishops. Then they will justify that action quoting St. Gregorios of Parumala or Valiya Bava. How many families have suffered even at the funeral service simply because of the constitution? How many churches are being closed because of this constitution? Does it mean that constitution is only for the people and not for the bishops? Why can’t we withdraw all cases and negotiate with the patriarchal group and bring about peace and reconciliation to develop a unified Indian Orthodox Church? Because of the divisions, money and persuasion/influence twist the constitution. Are we doomed like the Roman papacy of the middle ages? Well, it is our call and duty to stand up for our rights and justice for all. We believe in a God of justice, peace and order. St. Paul reminds us to do everything in “order”. Let us work for the restoration of peace, discipline and order in our church.
Congrats Thirumeni…..
Dear Geevarghese Achen,
You hit the spot, thank you. Congrats to Mor Barnabas Thirumeni.
Dear Geevarghese Achen,
I don’t know much about bishop Moosa Gurgon. But you said he was expelled from the Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch. In such a juncture, there was no other way for him but to seek asylum from the Indian Orthodox Church as we did in 1653 and in 1912. As an expelled person, he was a free a bird to roost on another tree. And I think he was consecrated not as a bishop for the Malankara Orthodox Church. Hence it does not and need not come under the perview of the Malankara Association. He has an autonomous church of his own which accepts the “Spiritual Supremacy” of our Catholica bava. Fr. Eldos Kaungupalli too has not yet been accepted by us. But this was not the case of Mar Barnabas thirumeni(Jacob varghese achen). As far as I know, he was never expelled from Malankara Orthodox Chruch. Instead, he left us of his own will for selfish ulterior motives. Please note that Mor Militius, Dr Mar Athanasios and Mor Nicholovas were accepted into our fold when the Malanara Association met at Parumala in 2002. It was a merging of two factions based on the constitution of 1934 of the Malankara Church and on the direction of the honourable Apex court of India . Yet,unfortunately, we could not tame the remaining faction that is still under the leadership of Shreta bava. The position of these three bishops were regularised and ratified by that historic Association held in Parumala thanks to God.
If you have any complaint about the present system of election process,and if you are sure of your rights, you can challenge that in court?
Be sensible!
God bless,
George Achen,Ireland.
Fr George do u think that the court has authority to judge the church if u think it is wrong
Fr. Geevarghese , are you really a priest of Malankara Orthodox Church. You speak the same language as shreshta bava uses
Eldho
Fr. George, I think your blind uncompromising thinking is getting the best of you. Extremism and Fanatism does not come from God. Excommunication of anyone that joins the patriarchal faction by our Church is meaningless because Church is One. Have you ever wondered why our church didn’t excommunicate H.G. Abraham Severious when he went back to the Jacobite Church or how come H.G. Geevarghese Mar Barnabas is not excommunicated by our church? We are bend on unity of two factions and believe that the church is one. If we truly believe this in essence, how could someone throw so much mud at Mar Barnabas instead we should admire his courage. He was with H.B. from 2004 and only after six years he was ordained with such pomp and glory. Such is his character. Compare this with the overnight ordination of Mar Gurgan who had to be ordained with the church doors closed. Filing cases is not the answer as Fr. George suggested. We filed so many cases in many churches after the four Bishops came to us in Kandanad, Thrissur and America. Name one church where our Catholicose is able to enter where we got favorable judgement. The most we were able to do was celebrate some Munsif Court Judgment which gets reversed in no time. When we claim that those Thirumenis came and joined during the parumala association, it is false. People who know the facts know otherwise. And they all didn’t join together but at various times. Mar Nicholovas being the last to join. Let us accept ground facts and see this as a positive development. Like Milithose thirumeni says very often that they didn’t come from anywhere but were part of the same Church which was and is One and Mar Geevarghese Barnabas didn’t go anywhere because the Church is One. Instead of confusing the poor layman and leading them into conflict, we should accept that the church is One in its truest spirit. I think that is the only way out of this never ending litigation. When Bishops of both faction maintain very good relationships with each other, when Priest from both factions maintain very good relationships, when wealthy families from both factions maintain good relations thru marriages and being in the same status class why should some poor layman be thrown into the streets to bark at each other because of the hatred taught and spread by a hand full of persons. Believe in essence that the Church is One and spread that Truth.
Dear Brother Arun,
Please dont talk about politics. Its shame for your Puthenkurizesociety.If you have time please go and visit Pampaday.There is a ex bishop or retired bishop of Puthenkurize is staying in his house. H.G Mar Philoxinos( former Malabar /Meenangadi Dioc)He will speak about the real politics in Puthenkurize gorup. He will explain how he got retirement. He dont have money now. Now his friends of Kottayam district is supporting him.(Both Orthodox and Patriach gorup)
Onother thing you just go and meet your synod secretary H.G.Joseph Mar Gregorios. He will exaplain how he moved to Orthodox group along with Mar Milthios and Mar Athanasius, and why he back to Puthenkurize? He will expalin as a top secret story…So brother Arun, Please pray for your church.May be good things will come after this Sreshtan time.
Dear Eldho,
Where in his speech do you see him trying to support the other faction. The thing that I respect about Fr. Geevarghese and Fr. Shebaly is that they don’t support or oppress the other faction. Clergy such as Fr. Geevarghese and Fr. Shebaly are the ones that we need in our church to bring unity. I believe that they both made good comments about the present situation of or church. One comment I don’t understand of fr. George “I fear what is going to happen in Kerala is a ‘flood of bishops’. The Patriacrchal faction in Kerala with a skeleton membership can claim to their credit a number of 31 bishops without much things to do.” What is meant by a skeleton membership?? They too have many members in their church. Is there any need to offend?
I am also in accord with the previous posters on the way the election process is taking place. One poster said that the Jacobite church just comes and ordains a bishop in two days. Well maybe they just made it known to the public in these two and had conversations in their synods. I find it disrespectful that the names of all 20 some what candidates are posted online. Is that really necessary?? The election of bishops should be made by the holy malankara synod, not whoever has a higher poll number. I even find the poll at the top of the page to be offending. What is this, a popularity contest??
God Bless, John
Dear manu,I belong to jacobite church.With curiosity i am following the discussion in IOH regarding the ordination of HG BERNABAAS . Manu why u r annoyed on something purely our internal affairs. We jacobites have a strong and ,able leadership ,we are blessed with our sreshta Bava .Our church is progressing in all spheres.Above all we accept any decisin HB takes ,unlike in yor group,HG Bernabaas was with us from 2004 ,our decision makig bodies found him good and selected him as a bishop . ..If u are jelous we cant help it. Perhaps like the Father from Ireland u can also murmer and utter the jacobite are skeletal in numbers.However atleast think sometmes why all the political leaders are after Sreshtabava .Please go through Malankara syriac voice to see the beautiful churches HH and HB consecrated in last month in places where orthodox church dont have even a place of worship.Also I invite u for the consecration of jacobite Dayora in Mallappally thebirth place of Vattaseril Thirumen.
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All the jokers who are crying foul when one of our own went to other side should also remember that we welcomed with open arms when people in their side swithced sides. We parraded them around Kerala like prized trouphy.
“Don’t we read in the Holy Bible like, shame to the man who creates division, because it is better for him to tie a stone around his neck and drown into the mid sea…..” ha ha we could quote the bible for anything nowadays…What happened when their bishops switched over and created division among them. Didnt we have a bible at that time.
Please this fight is about nonsense!!!
Read this hundred times.
“We reap what we sow… “
I am Syrian Orthodox by birth and I value my 2000 year old Malankara Nasrani heritage. But in front of the thrown of Grace neither qualification is relevant. Though, the teachings and traditions of my church provides me with immense resources and means to approach thy thrown.
The split in the church in 1972 stole from my generation the opportunity to grow spiritually. Ordained leaders of the church had to spend lion’s share of their talents to fight for the “thrones” and they lost their credibility and witness to preach the Gospel of our Lord.
When you dig down to understand the root cause of the dispute, it’s the same old original sin. DISOBEDIENCE. Nobody wants to obey their spiritual or temporal authority. Let’s thank God that both our churches have so many efficient and learned bishops. If they are really “called”, our churches are going to see immense blessings. If they are “elected” , Satan’s work will continue to flourish for generations in making God’s children fight each other and keep them from witnessing to the 1 billion Indians.
The quarrel between the factions can be ended if both churches bent their knees and pray and humble themselves and see his brother better than the other. Hoping for a unified church is a pipe dream- but nothing is impossible if we turn to Him. If we can agree to respect each other and let the majority faction in every church provide the resources to build a reasonable church building for their weaker brother, share the cemeteries, share the disputed common places like Alwaye, at least the next generation will have a blessed life devoid of church politics. 1934 or 2002 constitution is not going to bring peace – they have only helped in more court cases and fodder for fight and wasted the best century. Going to court for any church dispute exposes the spiritual bankruptcy of our churches. Prayer and Fasting is the only solution to open the eyes of the people who are feigning blindness. Hope the elected and called clergy will be more mindful of their own teaching that it will be asked many fold of them.
I am still hopeful. I don’t know of the IOC, but a lot of spiritual revival among the SOC laymen is happening all over the church, may be as a result of the tireless work of the new bishops. I believe and pray that God will bring peace in his Church in our lifetime, if not, I have no hope of seeing any of the elected and called people of either faction on the “other side” of life. Look forward to the day when IOC and SOC as two sister churches work together to reach the Gospel to all parts of India (a mission we failed to accomplish because of our pride).
dear brother manu they only says the things which there are holy people but in person i know why militheous went to the orthdox fraction . first u should know the one thing iam not a person of this malankara church. do u think that the activities inside ur church is one the basics of truth. do u know what role manorama play that led to the partion of the church. and do u know what was the verdict of supreme court on 1995. do u think the his holiness partirch is against the malankara church?
In my previous post, I didn’t mean to disrespect or belittle the Godly work majority of our dedicated clergy are doing. Please pardon me if it sounded that way.
Why all r writing all these scrap n argumentsit wasteoftime.it doesn’t make any sense at all.please ,please pray 4 this church 2 b united.when we laymens pray 2gether parish get united,when parishes get united diocese get unite,when dioceses get united church get unite,and finally when church get united all faction get unite and come under 1 roof.its impossible 2 happen, bcoz both r grown in all sphere’s 2 one another.,but god say is possible with him.let bend ur knees and pray,god we r giving our selfs this church in front of u,please make it peacefull&united,so that our next generation will be able 2 say “THIS IS THE CHURCH WITH GOD PRESENCE”.
Dear all
Good , Don’t stop the fight with both group, after the twenty years , we can see all the churches become best a museum
Dear Brethern . Leave this subject aside and pray for the church namely the smooth functioning of the malankara association meet on 17th,so that 7 candiddates be elected as desired.
The ordination of Mar Barnabas and the news and comments about it triggered a good discussion. Sometimes people are getting very emotional. I too was very emotional and very proud about our Church when I was young
Now I feel ashamed about the Church and the leadership on both sides. It is real power politics playing in the Church. Money power and corruption also plays important role. All of you who are hotly arguing for both sides should understand that the number of our Church members are decreasing
Kolenchery was a strong hold of the Malankara Orthodox or Jacobite Church. There was only Jacobite or orthodox members in and around Kolenchery for decades or centuries. But now there are 18 Pentecostal churches within a radius of 5 kilometers from kolenchery and Kadamattom. They all were members of our Churches and left because of power struggle within the Church.
We spent more than 5 crores of Rs for church litigation in the past 20 years This is from the money the humble faithful offer at Parumala or Manarkadu. The whole yearly Budget of the Malankara Orthodox Church is only 3 crores. This much money would have been enough to construct new churches at areas where there are dispute.
Some of our Orthodox members are very little information about the Jacobite Church.
We the Orthodox are strong in Pathanamthitta and Kollam district.
But the Jacobites are strong in Kottayam and Ernakulam districts. Fr. T. George said that there are unemployed bishops in the Jacobite Church. That is because of the attitude of the people. It is a prestige for most our Gulf Malayalees to invite bishop for all the programs at home. Pathanamthitta and Kollam dist are the main area of Gulf Malayalees or Puthupanakkar Even for Kattilaveypu some invite the head of he Church Malankara Metropolitan and Catholicose seated on the Apostolic Throne. So our Bishops are fully engaged.
Actually what is the employment of most of the our Bishops
Marriage, funeral and Chatha Qurbana and perunal Qurbana are their main programs.
There is famous prayer of the Drivers of our Thirumenies which is known as Drivers Prayer. Immediately after getting up in the early morning the drivers of thirumeni used to pray Dayvame innu oru shavamenkilum kittane( Oh God we should get at least one dead body today). We can’t blame him because it is his livelihood
The people at Northern Diocese are not that much fond of Bishops to invite them for all the funerals or baptisms. That is why as George achan says the bishops at Jacobite group are unemployed
And you know there is some commission business also there. It is our trade secret. Some of our Priests are always getting big Parishes. They always invite bishops for each and every single programs and make the bishops happy by Kaimuth from the believers. The Priests will also gets its benefit sooner or later.
The people at the southern diocese like Thumpamon and Niranam think that they are the majority and the Jacobites are negligible in number. It is not true. According to official documents from Devalokam and diocesan centers the population is as follows
Tvm Diocese 13000 families, Kollam 16000, Thumpamon 16000, Mavelikara 11000,Chengannur 8000,Niranam 13000,Kottayam 12000,Kottayam central 2400,Idukki 2500,Kandanadu east 4500,Kandanadu west 6000,Ankamali 3500,Kochi 8000,Trissur 680,Kunnamkulam 5600,Malabar 6000,Bathery 3500
All together 131680 famileies means 5 to 6 lakhs followers
The Jacobites number 40000 families in Ankamali with more than 140 Churches Kandanadu they have 20000 and Kochi also 15000 Then Malabar Bathery Idukky 8000 Kottayam 14000 and the rest in the south That is all together around 100 000 families in Kerala which will also come around 4 to 5 lakhs. Then comes the Knanaya Arch diocese and Simhasana Churches
According to political parties in Kerala the Orthodox cannot influence any of the Kerala assembly constituencies with our numerical strength. But the Patriarchal group can influence at least 5 to 8 constituencies. That is their political strength.
Changing side was not suicidal for Mar Barnabas But it was suicidal for our beloved Mor Athanasiose and Mor Milithios and Mor Abraham Severiose. That is what they say in private conversation and that is why Mor Severiose got escaped .
The Jacobite and orthodox are not yet two Churches. It is two divisions in the one Church. Changing side is also not a new thing as we note at least from Augen Bava. It will continue like this until we unite again as one or part ourselves as two Churches. And each and everybody would have their own personal reasons for changing side. That reason is very important and should be honored than any other reasons. For that I respect Mar Augen, Mor Athanasiose, Mor Nicholovas, Mor Milithiose and Mor Barnabas and Mor Gurgan equally. None of them are better or worse than the other.
My dear Geevarghese acha,
You seem clever enough to read in between the lines and twist things acording to your choice. The phrase “Unemployed bishops” are not my make. It was infact coined by my brethrens of the patriarchal factions. I have never harboured any ill- feeling towards my people on the other side, instead, I have always cherished love and respect for them and tried to maintain a good rapport with those people. I go to the churches which are under their control currently with all fervour and reverence as I go to the churches which are on this side. Ever since I became active in spiritual activities, it has been my dream and prayer to see both factions united and peace prevailed. But I am dead against the extremists on both sides and I prefer to see an organised system followed in both groups. What we need today is a life based on principles and values. Without which we can not stand.
The ultimate aim of every religion is the salvation and transformation of the whole world. It aims at the transition of the chaotic world to the orderly world. Since human being is a social being, the stability and progress of any society depend upon the life of each individual personally and collectively. In order to regulate and to control the activities of men in society, it is necessary that the society must be organised for an orderly life under the guidance of an agency. The church is such an agency. If there is no rule and discipline maintained, the net result would be anarchy.
The wanton and unnecessary hatching of bishops would augment an unhealthy trend and competition among the people in our community, which, I fear, would gradually and eventually aggravate the strife and schism between the two groups. The consequence would be more divisions and disintegrations to a zero.
Thank you for your understanding.
God bless us,
With all due respect and love,
George Achen,Ireland.
Fr. Geevarghese,
Though I agree with some of your comments dt. 4th Feb 2010, the statistics you gave of both the churches and your assumption about the political parties on the strength of both the factions is not true. The last Lok Sabha and State Assembly elections are clear evidence that neither of these factions are of any significance.
After all that is none of our business. Yesterday in Idukki a family of three, father (48), mother (39) and only child 8 years studying in 4th standard committed suicide. Reason poverty! Our Church has a diocese there; the Jacobites have two – one in the form of High Range and another Idukki. In addition to this all other Christian denominations have a presence. Leave the Christians alone, what about the majority Hindus? Still no body could notice their plight. This is just one recent incident. How many such cases have happened and is happening? Do we get bothered about such things?
I have a good number of friends in the other faction. One clear difference when you compare them with us is that, they are more loyal to their Church especially to their leaders be it the Patriarch or lay Secretary. They give more respect to H.H than to any other living person in this world inspite of his poor health and old age. But when it comes to our own Catholicose, how many will say he should continue? Forgot about the Catholicose, what about the representative of the Youth our Association Secretary? Will he be spared? This means it is nothing to do with Age. It is an attitude issue. Isn’t it?
Also I politely disagree with your comparison of Mar Augen, Mor Athanasiose, Mor Nicholovas, Mor Milithiose with Mor Barnabas. It is just covering the hole with darkness. Don’t you think frankly there is more to it? Sorry I am not opening a debate. .
One particular thing I strongly believe and many would agree is, there are and will be many a people who are more capable than the people who are in positions. Unless and until people in positions understand this and consider their fellow beings, this dilemma will continue until the world exists and we keep on arguing on them.
What we can do is to be wise and happy with what we have and correct ourselves than boasting on what someone else has!
Ikkara Nikkumbol Akkara pacha! That’s it.
Dear brethren in Christ:
I went through almost all postings about Geevarghese Mar barnabas Thirumeni.I don’t understand the reason for arguing about the merits and demerits of Barnabas Thirumeni.Anyway he is ordained as a Bishop.Whether we want to accept him or reject him is strictly personal.Please don’t say anything bad about others.Because he joined the Jacobite church he is not a bad person.Please don’t be so fanatic.Unfortunately we have division in our church and based on that please don’t try to blame each other, rather pray for the unity.
I know Jacob Varghese (Kunju) since he was a seminary student.He was my senior student in the seminary.He was a very honest and sincere person.H.G.Chrysostomos Thirumeni was his best friend.Down the road fortunately or unfortunately he left our church.Right now he has become a bishop.At this point let us pray for him, our church and the jacobite faction.May our Lord Jesus Christ guide our church for perfect unity.Please remember that we don’t have to respect others but we should never despise others.God bless us and our church.
Benny Achen
South Florida
CONGRATULATIONS THIRUMENI.
What you did is correct and appreciated. Myself and my family members resigned from the orthodox church due to the politics. If a parishmember has to do this I can understand the problems you faced in the orthodox churches. People interpret in different ways. Take it easy. In bible Shawl worked against God but finally he became the leader. Shouting slogans in the past does n’t mean that you made a mistake. You realised now and changed and made a great change. So you have to bring that changes in Jacobite churches so that people can worship God without politics.
Those who critisise you seems coming directly from God. Every body talk about principles. What principles many of you have? Being Orthodox how many of you do not marry your children to other churches? How many of you mingle with your fellow parisheners with respect and love? Nobody respect God. Listen the prayers, listen the speeches, everywhere men disrespect God.
All principles we talk about we expect from others and that is not within us. So change a change is required.
God Bless you all.
Dear Mr. Jose Varghese,
I am happy that you are no longer part of church politics and your family and you are now safe there in Patriarchal faction- the only church denomination which could claim of itself one that is devoid of politics. Well and good. May your trust save you. You have the freedom of your choice, no one can hinder you, and so is everyone’s case. But please bear in mind always the verses from the holy Bible: “There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death”(Proverbs 14:12,16:25) and “The way of a fool seems right to him but a wise man listens to advice”(Proverbs 12:15). Let me quote St.Paul, ” Those who think they are standing firm had better be careful that they do not fall”(I Corinthians 10:12).Further,be aware of what happened to the people of Israel. When there was severe starvation, they went to Egypt in search of food, but eventually they were treated cruelly as slaves by the Egyptians . This is exactly what happened in the case of the history of Malankara sabha also. Think it over… Let me conclude here with the words from Jean Jacques Rousseau,”Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chain…”.
God bless us,
George Achen,Ireland.
Dear Geevarghese Achen,
I think your numbers are very much under estimated. As per H G Yuhanon Mar Polycarpus in an interview done couple of days back, he claims we have 2 lack families in Ankamali. That is a very big difference from what you reported.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncp__Z6gbR4
BARNABAS THIRUMENI ABHIVANDANANGAL.
From the above letters it is very clear that even the priests are not far from politics. Answering Jose Varghese by Fr T George indirectly mentioning the word fool. Who is the fool?. There are so many versus in bible, one has to take the correct verse and should not pinch others. One do not need to go to Israel to find out the reasonability of the situations. It is very clear. What is is your problem if he is with Patriarch faction. You said to Jose Varghese you are happy for him since he left orthodox Church. How can you be happy when he left the orthodox church you being the priest of Orthodox Church. If so why you are unhappy with Barnabas Thirumeni since he left Orthodox Church. Here you see your politics in yourself. I am an ardent Orthodox beleiver it doesn’t mean that Fr. T. George is correct.
God Bless us.
I was wondering at the number of messages on this issue. Has IOH in its history got so many responses on an issue that does not have any relevance in our daily life? Neither IOC is going to debar Mor Barnabas nor is SOC going to stop accommodating such characters.
It would be worth reading one of today’s Old Testament reading and think over it. Ezekiel Chapter 34. Is the Lord telling the shepherd go and get the highest ecclesiastical position?
Find out whether it has a message for the shepherds. We are looking forward for the next batch of 7 bishops. Let us hope they look after their sheep properly and will not be after the next position they can get.
Dear Mr. Thomas Thomas,
You are greatly mistaken. Had you read my previous postings without prejudice, you would never have branded me as a politician. Don’t make grimace when short of answer. I reiterate the fact that I have no personal grudge towards either Barnabas thirumeni or patriarchal faction. What I was pointing was to have a discipline and integrity for a church member. It was Mar Barnabas thirumeni who instilled in me this so called Political attitude, if at all I am so. Therefore,he can not escape from that responsibility. As a consecrated bishop, I respect him and kiss his hand, but in all my humility and sincerity, I thought it was my duty to point out where he went wrong. Hence I wrote . He may have his own justification as “end justifies means”. So I retreat.
My dear brother, what else should I have other than ‘Bible verses’ to preach the people around me. The winged termites never know that they would perish eventually when attracted to the glowing fire. Same is the case with many of our brethrens. Alas!
May God bless us all.
With prayers and best wishes,
George Achen,Ireland.
Fr Gheverse was exacly correct. He viws are excatly right.
Congrajulation Barnambas Gheevarse Thrimeni
Dear George Achen,
Now I understand your feelings. If you don’t mind let me tell you. You should preach Bible versus around. But are you more spiritually intelligent than those thirumeni’s who made the selection? Our Intelligence is foolish in front of God.
If you were with Patriarch faction, you will have enough to prove that your are with the right people and since you are with Orthodox you can prove that Orthodox is the ritght group. Both the groups pray to God do you think that God neglect the prayers of Jacobites?
Now your duty is to find amicable solutions to the numerous problems of both these groups wrather than agravating groupism. I would have never responded if I do not find your letters.
I am an ardent Orthodox, I wish all priests in Orhodox to be a model to others.
I AM A STRONG ORTHODOX MEMBER FROM THE KOTTAYAM KALLUNKATHRA MANALEL CHURCH. I WAS ACTIVELY PARTICAIPATING IN THE CHURCH DISPUTE BECAUSE OUR CHURCH STILLAT DISPUTE AND CASE IS GOING ON
AS FROM THE EXPERIENCE I AM HAVING FROM OUR CHURCH AND I HEAR ABOUT THE PRESENT POLITCAL SITUATION IN OUR CHURCH IWOULD SAY THAT THE STEP TAKEN BY FR. JACOB VARGHESE – MAR BARNABAS WAS GOOD MOVE FROM HIS SIDE. IF WE REALLY DESERVE SOMETHING AND WE KNOW THAT PEOPLE ARE BLOCKING US THEN WE HAVE TO LOOK FOR AN ALTERNATIVE WAY.
THANK YOU
I did read all the postings from top to bottom and astonished by the response. From the postings there are people who claim they are not from either orthodox or patriarch but indeed prove by their postings that they are of the patriarch and Fr. Geevarghese too appears to be from the patriarch side but claiming to be orthodox. Not exposing genuine identities is a shame. Leave that there.
Now indeed there is much to talk. I was in the patriarch faction previously and changed over to the orthodox in 1995 after the Apex court judgment and movements in the patriarch side. And that was INDEED A WISE DECISION. I remain now in the “Mother Church of India- The Indian Orthodox Church” ever since. From my experience in the Patriarch faction, it’s all “vengeance and eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth” there. You needn’t have to believe me if you don’t, but just open their online discussion forums and magazines to find the most abusive language used therein which stirs up hatred. Any one who reads these online messages will end up hating each other, instead of “loving each other” as the Bible says. Thank God I escaped from all this evil. Of course, I agree that both factions has got its up’s and down’s, but since I’ve been in both factions, I know the heat is more in the Patriarch side. A change over to the Orthodox side has instilled in me, a feeling of warmth of being at ones real home, like the coming home of the prodigal son. I feel happy there is no vengeance here.
This great Church has been exclusively gifted to us by none other than Our Lord for the people of India and Kerala in particular and by HIS GRACE to be taken forward “by the people and of the people of India”. When the Lord has directly send His Apostle to establish His Church here for us, God had a plan; And we should be rejoicing with gratitude and shouting in joy, thanking Him for that. Do we need to surrender this great gift HE has given us by placing it at somebody’s feet? According to the will of God, HE directed HIS disciple St. Thomas to establish this Great Church for HIM here in India, because God knew that we Indians are HIS creation too and that we are not inferior to any foreigners who are also HIS creation. Therefore in the presence of God, all are equal. When there was weakness and difficulties here, God send HIS people from other Orthodox Churches, also established by HIS other Apostles, to nourish HIS Church here in India but not to own it. But those who came to nourish were over taken by the humbleness and riches of the people here and tried to subjugate God’s church here. But, will God allow that? Never and so HE raised Vattaserril Dionysius Thirumeni as the Malankara Metropolitan to conserve the Indian Orthodox Church that we have today, growing in the Grace of GOD and over flowing the boundaries of India, all over the World. Now, it’s real great to be part of the grand Church founded by St. Thomas the Apostle of our Lord, in our land, Kerala and it gives one the feeling and warmth that it’s our own home and I don’t want my neighbor to run the affairs of my home, right?
At the outset, please excuse me for borrowing of some beautiful words and phrases from here and elsewhere in internet forums.
Respected George Achen, Ireland said: HH Augen Bava, Mor Milithios, Mor Athanasios and Mor Nicholovas. They stood for a ‘Principle’. Their decision was ideological.
Respected Fr. Geevarghese Achen said: …What ‘Principle’?…What ‘ideology’ ..? Two (junior) bishops ordaining another bishop without the approval of Malankara Association?
Please note explanations below;
The approval of the Malankara Association is required for the candidates aspiring to be the Bishops of the Malankara Church only. The Holy Synod approval alone is sufficient to ordain Bishops for other Churches. The Holy Synod approved the decision to ordain Moosa Gurgon, endorsing the Catholicos Designate and H.G. Mathews Mar Saverious, H.G. Dr. Thomas Mar Athanasius and H.G. Yuhanon Mar Melithios for the ordination; But after arrival of Moosa Gurgon to Kerala, Catholicos designate and Mar Saverious for reasons unknown, was not present for the Consecration. H.H. the Catholicos at that time was admitted in Parumala Hospital and was consulted. The consecration took place thereafter. So, we see that H.G. Dr. Thomas Mar Athanasius and H.G. Yuhanon Mar Melithios went by Principles. (Source: was available to public as news and photographs in Malankara Orthodox TV).
The Holy Synod approved the consecration in its subsequent sitting and H.H. the Catholicos issued the “Staticon” for the Independent Orthodox Church of Europe.
So, we see that Moosa Gurgon was consecrated as H.G Moosa Gurgon Mar Severious, after the people supporting him in Europe selected him to be their bishop and send him to Malankara to be consecrated. Note that the Patriarch and his Bishop Representative in Europe by their un-fare means had caused a split in Europe and their churches in California. To know more about this, open the link below and see under letters their communication on the high-handedness of Patriarch and his bishop representative. It seems a divide and rule policy, as done in Malankara over the years.
http://www.stjamessyriac.org/english.html
The split communities approached Malankara for help, similar to a position that we were in years ago. As usual Excommunication is the final word of all Patriarchs without mind to solve problems. In Dr. Babu Paul’s own words “Malankara lost a golden chance to Consecrate Moosa Gurgon, as that would have proven beyond doubt that Malankara is no inferior but in par with Antioch and now it’s the turn of Malankara which is capable to Consecrate Syrians to the Episcopal rank”.
Coming back, please note that H.H. Augen Bava, H.G. Mor Milithios, H.G. Mor Athanasios, H.G. Mor Nicholovas, they stood for a ‘Principle’. Their decision was ideological. They took this drastic step for a noble cause- the dream of a United Orthodox Church in India and not for personal benefits. What they did was accepting the 1934 constitution of the Holy Church as per the directions from the Apex Court of India in 1958 and 1995 respectively. They took this step not by their own accord but abiding by the decision of the group in which they were based and on the directions of their head the Patriarch in light of the Apex court judgment.
(See link below- the Proof of 1995 decision).
http://cid-866cc4f0caf251c6.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Hypocrisy%20of%20Jacob\
ite%20People
But, the Patriarch based on influences within the group changed his stance and those with him flouting their earlier decisions. The facts in above letters are very evident. It’s a shame they cannot abide by their own decisions. If one cannot stand by his decision, how can one control others? Its evident they did not have a Principle. But the others stuck on to the original decision without wavering, not for personal benefits but they dreamt of a United Orthodox Church in India. That’s the Principle. That’s the noble cause. They dreamt of Peace in our Holy Church and not to achieve any positions here. They had been enjoying many more privileges in the Patriarchal faction than what they enjoy here today. Yet as part of the collective decision of their former group, they agreed to and still stand firm in the Indian Orthodox Church. This is what they did. For that they are suffering a lot from within and outside of the church. They are capable and dedicated Bishops and don’t you think we have to support them in all respects and bring out the best in them for the up liftment of our Church? H.H. Mathews II Catholicos recognized that positively. Certainly, they have to be given better positions to prove their ability. H.G. Dr. Thomas Mor Athanasios is a scholar and author of many books and periodicals. H.G. was in the selection committee for the Bishops this time. The Orthodox Christian Youth Movement (OCYM) had been enjoying the active leadership of the dynamic bishop of the Malankara Orthodox Church, H G Dr Yuhanon Mar Meletius Thirumeni. The Movement was fortunate enough to be in the craftsmanship of such a visionary and democratic leader as Meletius Thirumeni. See link below;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Malankara_OCYM/message/557
H.G. Augen Mar Thimothious became a renowned Catholicos and echoed the presence of the Indian Orthodox Church in the meet of Orthodox Churches in Addis Abba in 1966.
Remember that when one stands for a genuine cause, you are hated and despised and crucified. That’s what happened to Jesus.
What Fr. Jacob Thengumtharayil did to become a bishop was that he thought of himself alone. He was happy in the Indian Orthodox Church and everything for him was getting along fine, but for his unsuccessful attempt to become a bishop. Blaming the hierarchy or someone else when one is not successful is an unhealthy way of viewing unsuccessfulness, rather than it ought to have been “what was it that I lacked that lead to my failure and correcting my failure to make it a stepping stone to success the next time”. Recall that all problems are man made. There is no problem that cannot be rectified. Running away to achieve personal goals is cowardliness and self interest. It does not improve you, the society in which you are and those that support you. He did not have a principle. He threw his personal property to “fish his desires for personal gain” and not for the common good of the Church. Any common man within or outside knows that. And we can counter argue to this point for years. It’s no good. But, how much ever one argues on the shape of the earth, the fact remains exposed that the earth is round and not flat. And so, Fr. Jacobs’s intention remains exposed. How much ever one argues, the intention and fact remains exposed. So, keep arguing.
And that’s why we see this vast response here over a person who runs after personal importance. Whether it’s me or you, this would be the attitude of the public when we don’t have principles.
I request the Moderators to close the comments forthwith, as there would be no end to comments and counter comments so long as the world exists.
Thanks for taking the time to read this lengthy article.
Itty Pothen.
I wonder about the increasing number of responses and postings connected to the ordination of Mar Barnabas. Nobody in our church dared to question or discuss why Fr. Jacob Varghese left our Church and joined the Patriarchal group when he left us in 2004. After he left and got ordained we all are very enthusiastic in discussion. He was a prominent priest and an elected Managing Committee member from Niranam Diocese. We or the leadership of our Church did not try to keep him in our Church. Now another election is coming we are not questioning or discussing why the screening committee denied candidature to some of the prominent candidates. Non of us are bothered about the validity or process of the screening or election or norms or anything like that. And we shout when somebody leaves. Should we not be ready for correction if needed.
Since Mr. A.C. Philip and the Dn. questioned the authenticity of the statistics I posted on 4th February. I just want to bring out one of my sources about the membership in the Ankamali Diocese
We have the list of the Malankara Association Members. Representatives to the Association are elected from each parish according to the number of families. Article 71 of the Constitution of the Malanakara Orthodox Church says about the representation. It says: From the parishes up to 100 members ( Note MEMBERS) 1 layman
From 101 to 250 Members 2 Laymen. From 251 to 500 members 3 Laymen From 501 to 750 members 4 laymen and so on….
In the Ankamali West Diocese we have 8 parishes with 1 layman. That means they got only less than 100 members ( There are parishes with 15 or 30 or 70 members )
There are 7 parishes with 2 representatives. There are 2 parishes with 3 representative and 1 parish with 7 representative ( according to the constitution from 1250 to 1500 members 7 laymen) All together in the Ankamali west may be 5000 to 6000 members
In the Ankamali East Diocese we have 5 parishes with one representative and 4 parishes with 2 representatives. You just calculate how much?
That is all what we have at Ankamali according to the official records.
What Thirumeni claimed in the interview is wrong. Sorry to say that. People like Thirumani are still hope and pray that we may get all the Patriarchal group Churches and still counting on them by spending lakhs and lakhs for litigation every month. ( If my information is correct in two months time connected with Perunnal we spent 10 lakhs for Thrikkunnathu Seminary only. Still we lost it. )
We have the official list published from each Diocesan centre and from the central secretariat at Devalokam to refer.
Definitly I can say and prove with official records that the total membership of the Malanakra Orthodox Church is only between 5 to 6 lakhs plus children say @ 2 – 3 lakhs
Another point which I would like to mention in this connection is the formation of the Puthrkuruz society of the Jacobites. The main issue in the Supreme court case(1995) was the proportionate representation at the Malanakra Association. The Patriarchal group said that they will not get proportionate representation since the parish with 5 members and the parish with 500 members and the parish with 3000 members are all represented equally by one priest and two laymen. So the Supreme Court asked to amend the constitution and we amended it. Still now the maximum number of representation is 10 Laymen. That is a parish with 2000 and above membership can have only 10 representatives. Some of the parishes of the Patriarchal group have more than 2000 or some 3000 -4000 and above members. They can also be represented only by 10. They understood that they will not get proportionate participation in the present system. I think that was also one of the reasons behind the formation of the Puthenkurish Society.
It’s sad too the two factions fighting in the name of power and authority – who has more of it, who should rule whom, what constitution should one follow … it’s really really sad. God has given us a constitution to live by, the Holy Bible, and wish we spend more time in teaching the words instead of spreading hate.
As Geevarghese achen mentioned, our fight is only helping the pentecostal churches. Dr. Athanasios explained this in his book in which he analyzed the reason and history of the dispute and possible solutions. If HG would stand by his writings and take the lead in convincing his current faction, the disputes can be ended before Easter (read http://www.malankarasyriacvoice.com/TA/ThomasAthanasius_Initial_Page.htm )
I have been following this debate and generally see that the over tone of the entire sequence of argument and counter is all misunderstanding and mistrust. I proudly belong to the Syrian Orthodox Church and similar to our Barnabas Thirumeni I was also born into the Orthodox Faction. I eagerly read what Mr. Itty Pothen said about himself returning to “Mother Church of India” as for I similarly returned to my Mother Church. He accused his former church of politics and that Indian Church was the better of two Churches with many problems. I disagree with his assessment of Jacobite Church and believe that politics runs rampant in the Indian Church. As I had mentioned I was born into the Orthodox Faction and was born and raised in America. I am not sure how many of you are aware of the history of the American diocese. Makarios Thirumeni was the first metropolitan and later replaced by Barnabas Thirumeni. Of course Makarios Thirumeni did not accept the transfer and decided to start a parallel diocese in America led by himself. At first the parallel diocese had six or eight churches, its own parallel diocese center, family conference and priests and laity loyal to Makarios Thirumeni. The church in India never tried to unify the diocese or bring the people together but rather turned a blind eye. Eventually the parallel diocese began to decline. People were tired of the isolation and in some circumstances were trying to remove their Church Vicar and thought joining the legitimate diocese might further that goal. My former church in America was hardcore supporters of the parallel diocese and continued even after the number of churches declined to three or four, but they remained loyal. Being a youth of maybe 17 or 18 and having friends part of legitimate diocese and attending their retreats and events noticed a huge deficiency at my Church. We were not part of the MGOCSM or any other Diocese level organizations or events. We did not even have any Bishops aside from Makarios Thirumeni visit our Church which was also declared a Cathedral by the latter, and still to this day is not accepted by the diocese as a Cathedral. Back to my main point I asked my Vicar if we could attend official Family conference and if we could join the MGOCSM to which he replied “We are not part of the mainstream”. During this time we did not even remember the diocese Bishops names during the Thubden, but only said Makarios Thirumeni’s name, after Moran Mor Ignatious and Mor Baselios. I of the young age of 17 was fighting by myself to become part of the Orthodox Faction, something which I thought I was born into. During this terrible time in my life I was isolated at church, kept from taking the censor from fear I would say the Diocese Bishops name, etc. Even then I still remained loyal and kept pushing to make my former church part of the “Main Stream”. Through all my tribulations did I receive any support from the diocese bishops, a resounding and absolute NO! During this time by the grace of God I became very active in researching the history of the Syrian Church in India. God shined the light of truth through my eye. My Patron Saint Parumala Thirumeni, was an inspiration to me, That Saint was always loyal to his Church and his Supreme Head the Holy Patriarch. Two years from that point I left the Orthodox faction and came back to my Mother Church as the prodigal son and they accepted me with open arms. I was ordained into the Holy Alter by Theethose Thirumeni and numerous people supported me. I truly believe that what was built by division will fall by division. I vividly remember a video that was sold at church titled “ Following in the footsteps of Vattersail Mar Dionysios” it was a video of Makarios Thirumeni ordaining two priests for his parallel diocese. Thirumeni truly did follow his footsteps dividing the diocese. At the end of the video was a public meeting where clergy and laity alike blasted the “Mother Church of India”. Makarios supporters once formed picket line outside their church and threw rocks at Mathews Mar Barnabas to prevent him from entering their church. I say my story because it is easy for one to call Barnabas Thirumeni a bad person for leaving the Orthodox faction but no one knows the agony that are behind the person. Truth come to one’s life in various ways and often through difficult times. You can what you want about us Jacobites, but we are loyal to our Church and its hierarchy. We maybe a skeleton in your eyes, but by the grace of God we will shine because we stood for truth. I want to send my congratulations to our Dear Barnabas Thirumeni, may God Bless You Thirumeni.
Thank you for reading my lengthy response and thank you Geevarghese Achen for your open mind.
Yours in Christ,
Robin J Mani
(See link below- the Proof of 1995 decision for unification).
http://cid-866cc4f0caf251c6.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Hypocrisy%20of%20Jacob\
ite%20People
If you cannot open the above link, then open from:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianOrthodox/message/25721
And then open the original link to see the decision of the Patriarch side.
Unity and peace was so close, but some shepherd there didn’t want it, for “personal” reasons and the Patriarch too went back on his words and so the divide continues. See any principle? Matters are clear “Do not do what you write”.
BLESSED ARE THE PEACE MAKERS FOR THEY SHALL BE CALLED THE SONS OF GOD.
Thanks,
Itty Pothen.
I ask what peace has been established from the switch of these bishops, has it not only caused more problems and issues? If they wanted unity could not more of been done by staying with the Mother Church and trying for unity then switching and causing more division. It is a known fact that the Orthodox Faction never wanted any unity, but rather domination. Orthodox Faction wants the Malankara Church to be under the 1934 constitution, of which even they do not fully follow. They themselves call our Patriachese Bava a foreigner and that H.H has no rights in Malankara. Where is the unity, the unity that was so proclaimed at the Kottayam meeting, because I heard more domination then unity. Not one court order has been stipulating the orders that the Orthodox Faction claims. Even the Bishops that came to the Orthodox side did not interpret the court order as currently seen in the Orthodox Faction. If the Orthodox side is serious about unity, withdraw all the court cases and lets sit at the table and talk about real long lasting peace, where both sides can agree to future course of the Church. Lets write a new constitution, written under unity rather then division as the 1934 one was. These would be real steps to peace not a repeat of the 1970′s. One thing the Orthodox faction must understand and realize is that we will not compromise on being members of the Syrian Orthodox Church under the One Holy Patriarch of Antioch. If that can not be met, then let us become sister churches of the same faith, as continually stated by our Holy Patriarch and Blessed Catholicos.
Yours in Christ,
Robin J. Mani
Dear Abu and Robin:
I was eagerly following the comments on this page and I am really sad to see the children of Malankara Church is fighting for no reason.
Saint paul in 1 Corinthians 3 says;
4.For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?
5.What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each.
6. I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth.
7.So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth.
8.He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor.
9.For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field, God’s building.
please read Edyanal Cor episcopas’ book linked here. Do you have any answers?
Also read carefully his conclusion. There should be some common ground to agree and put forth to get united.
http://indianchristianity.org/Jacob%20Mathew.book.pdf
Fr. Mathew V
Fr. Mathew,
The main culprit of the factional fighting is due to the writing that you mentioned in the bottom of your post. I will say that I had began to read the paper and actually liked the beginning, where the author points to problems on both factions and problems of both factions, yet as I continue to read it became the same one sided story based upon Orthodox Faction bias stories. I have read time and time again the same dribble from many such Orthodox “think tanks” this only elaborates its for 38 pages. This is the issue, where the Orthodox faction paints itself as merely the pure, righteous, sinless group, upholding the true Indian Mother Church, give me a break, absolute non-sense based on partisan spirits. I will tell you two points which stuck in my head that I had read, the point that giving possession of the church to majority group would not work because in such matters majority does not have the ethical nor authority to decide such issues. Yet, I find it funny that under your current bishop election process, a majority vote is how bishops are selected. Seems very hypocritical to me. Another issue was the name of the Malankara church, the author boasts that the rightful name of the church was Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church, where have you ever seen such a title before the Vattersail division. We have been called Jacobites, Nazareenes, Church of Malabar, and the rightful name Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church. So if you were to pick the correct name it would be Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church, now why do you think the syrian was moved to after Orthodox? Also the issues between the Patriarch and Vattersail Metran did not begin with H.H. arrival in Malankara, if you remember the issues started with disagreements with the Metran and his two co-trustees, who pleaded with the Patriarch to control the Metran , yet that story is easily side-lined by your side and inserted is fighting against foreign domination. I was born into the Metran Faction and have seen its ugliest side as illustrated from my previous posts, so I once again ask from where unity shall form? The conclusion I see a person that is stubborn in view and only seeks the information that propels his factional spirit.
Yours in Christ
Robin J Mani
Fr. Mathew V, Mr. Itty Pothen, and Fr. T.George,
If the current situation in the Malankara Church is not resolved through the court system by September 1912, would you be willing to start a movement to halt the current course of actions through the court system and look at a different option to solve the issues?
Binu
Dear Fr.Mathew,
Thanks for referring to the word. Lasting peace can be achieved if we take 1 Cor. 6. seriously enough.
1 If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints?
…
4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church![a]
5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers?
6 But instead, one brother goes to law against another—and this in front of unbelievers!
7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers.
Peace through “unity” is not possible anymore, the factions are beyond that point. But peace thro’ accepting each other as fellow Christians is still possible and that’s what we as fellow workers of God need to do in order to make the field plow-able and sow-able. If we don’t actively try to achieve that by humbling ourselves in prayer, all our offerings and sacrifices are in vain. (don’t we all recite that every sunday to our own peril? ).
Hindu and Muslim judges are trying to set the christians think straight reminding them of their calling and reminding them of the reality that another two hundred years of litigation won’t end the bloodshed in the name of what ??? When people who preach one thing and do exactly the opposite way, how much wrath should they expect.
Praying for the golden day when our churches stand side by side and preach the gospel to the lost, and the seeking, when there will be great joy in heaven.
Robin:
I just linked the book only to say you we have our own reason or we will find out one just to argue and not to agree.
But the fact is that there was a centuries old church existed in India founded by St.Thomas. That does not mean St. Peter is none to the undivided Indian Church. He is an apostle and first among the apostles. But St.Thomas happened to be the founder of Indian Church and that historical fact cannot be discarded and denied.
The Indian Church had its relations with the the Church of the east from centuries. After the Catholic Bishop Menesiz destroyed the liturgical and historical books of the old period, we have no idea in what language and how we had conducted our worships. Later on from the east we had our liturgy in eastern Syriac and then the current western Syriac. As we are one oriental Orthodox Family is there anything wrong with that?
Also We had no Bishops of our own for many centuries, we used the very same relationship to keep our Priestly order in our church. Laying on of hands from any legitimate church does not harm the faith or very same essence of priesthood. That does not mean that the Indian church is under them and Peterine Throne is to be established here forgetting the founder of the Church.
The Malankara Church is always welcoming all the other churches in the Oriental family. Many of them while they come here in India they will also attend the Synod. If Malankara Church merges with the Antioch, how this church can exist in the family of Oriental Orthodox as an Indian Church. All the Oriental Orthodox Churches are governed locally though they are in one faith.
Unfortunately, the Malankara is now divided and one faction is with Antioch. Can you claim it as Malankara? Logically no. Now you are a part of Antiochean Orthodox and there is only one antiochean Orthodox in the Oriental family.
In early days the global village concept was not there. Now we live outside the country. If no churches of our own near, we may join any of the Orthodox Churches. But are we foolish to implement our ideas and ask them to accept our hierarchy also in that church.
Our Father Abraham was right. When the servants of Abraham and Lot quarreled, for the sake of piece he In Genesis 13 said…
8 So Abram said to Lot, “Let’s not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, for we are brothers.
9 Is not the whole land before you? Let’s part company. If you go to the left, I’ll go to the right; if you go to the right, I’ll go to the left.”
As Children of Malankara to keep the good relations, I think it is better to part. Then Malankara will call the HH Patriarch of Antioch to visit its sister church here in India as HH Aram comes next week.
Love you
Mathews Achen
Dear Fr. Mathews,
Thank you for the reply and I am earnestly sad that the Orthodox Faction can’t envision a unity based upon being part of the Mother Syriac Church, and there we must divide and unify as sister churches. As many have mentioned before let us stop all these unGodly court cases and come to table reach a comprise to respect and love each other as sister churches. You said at the end that we will call our Holy Father as we call H.H. Aram , and I say that will never be, for our love and loyalty as children to the Syriac Church will not change for H.H. Aram is a head of the sister church and the Patriarch is our own Father. I end by saying that the reality for many Jacobites is that we are ready to accept all Orthodox People as Brothers of a sister Church and Your Catholicos as we see H.H. Aram, just let us live in peace and stop all the court cases. God Bless
Robin
We are not talking about the Antiochean Orthodox Church. It is only a sister church to Malankara. HH The Patriarch we respect him as the supreme head of our sister church. Malankara is never been a part of that church. What relation we keep with all the orientals, the same with Antiochean also…Nothing more or nothing less.
We were talking about the children of malankara fighting …OK well you want to be a part of Anteochean Orthodox Church, nothing wrong with that. We dont see any difference at all.
But when you search the records of the court, you will see that all the litigations are initiated by your faction. So it is very easy to drop the court cases and live peacefully together as sister churches.
Mathews Achen, Kottayam
Fr. Mathews V
I have seen the narration of Tombs of Abdull Messiah and HH Abded Aloho in the link that you have provided. I really pity on Edayanal Achan that he doesn’t know about the tombs of Adul Messiah’s and HH Abded Aloho . I am sure that Abdul messiah was burried at Kurkuma Dayara where the rembans buried!!!! It is quiet funny about the description of HH Abded Aloho’s tomb!!!! I am aware that it is in the Sehion Malika… I would suggest him to ask the Rev. Fr. Mushe Chichek of St Marks Monastery (Sehion Malika) He can direct him to the Tomb of HH Abdulla.
From that we could realize that how can a historian change the fact through his story!!!!
Dear Father Mathew.
If HH patrarch is only a head the sister chruch, why in the chruch constitution it is mentioned that the HH patrarch is the spritual head. Why from the constitution it is not yet removed. Is it not possible.
According to me why it is not removed, it is a trick. if it is removed it affected the court cases badly. That is the real reason. So in court HH patrarch is supreme spritual head and when talk outside it is not. This dual acceptance is not good.
To Fr. Mathew,
I am a priest of Syrian Orthoox Chuch. How can you claim that “Antiochian Orthodox Church” is a sister church to Malankara? DO YOU THINK SENSEBLY THAT PARUMALATHIRUMENI “SAINT OF MALANKARA” will say that ANTIOCHIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH IS A SISTER CHURCH.
MY SOLUTION AND REQUEST TO YOU AND MY LOST BROTHERS IN THE INDIAN ORTHODOX FACTION TO COME BACK INTO THE HOLY STAND OF PARUMALATHIRUMENI.
Looking forward to that miracle.
Fr. Jomon
CONGRATULATIONS HG BARNABAS THIRUMENI
I REALLY VALUE THE AUTHENTIC EVALUATIONS OF FR GEEVARGHESE
AND HIS REASONABLE JUSTIFICATIONS TO MAKE THE READERS AWARE OF THE RIGHT SITUATIONS, I CONGRATULATE FR GEEVARGHESE. ALSO THE VIEWS OF MATHEWS ACHEN AND WHOSEVER JOINED TO DISCLOSE THE FACTS WITHOUT FACTIONAL GOUPISTIC THINKINGS. EVEYONE SHOULD JOIN HAND IN HAND TO RESOLVE THE ISSUES OF BOTH THE GROUPS. TO QUOTE JOSE VARGHESE “EVERY BODY TALK ABOUT PRINCIPLES”. BUT WHO WILL STAY IN PRINCIPLES JUST THINK ABOUT. ALL PRINCIPLES ARE USED FOR THE PRINCIPLES WHICH CAN BE USEFUL FOR THAT PERSON.. SO BETTER AVOID CRITISISING OTHERS AND START LIVING FOR A RIGHT CAUSE. AS THE BIBLE SAYS STONE HER WHO HAVE NO SINS. YOU CAN CRITISISE ONLY IF YOU ARE 100% ON YOUR PRINCIPLES.
WORK FOR A NEW DAWN WHERE BOTH THE GROUPS STAY UNDER ONE UMBRELLA PRAISING THE LORD.
Hi All,
All you are doing is wasting of your valubale time quarelling each other. I can assure Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church & Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church is not going to unite any more….. What ever proofs you bring to claim each church is right, unity is going to happen………
Only thing you guys can do is stop making provocating statements on each other and stay as sister churches. Open the closed churches and share it.
Please come out of both faction’s shoes and think about the reality…..
Reality is far far away from all of you think of….
Thanks,
Mathz…..
This discussion is turning rubbish.Some people have even started acting too…For what principle did Thengumthaayil achen left the church. His principle was to get to the position of a Bishop some how. I think this news itself should NOT have appeared in IOH. If News is NEWS as the RESPECTED Editor commented then IOH could have mentioned it as a news just mentioning about the ordination rather than glorifying Thengumtharayil achen in its words.Can IOH show such words about the thirumenis of MOSC in any of the jacobite’s publication??? Ofcourse i believe IOH could have avoided the lines ” he left the Malankara Orthodox Church for the politics and undercurrent tactics played by the leaders of the Malankara Orthodox Church” .In my opinion IOH could have avoided this controversy as this discussion now only contributes to the on going mud throwing in the faction fights. I strongly protest aganist this attitude of IOH by WITHDRAWING from the position of Trustee Board Membership of IOH.
mr mathew shall i ask if the patriarch is nothing for ur church. pls remove his holiness name from you constitution dear
Hi,
U told that we jacobite’s publish the details of bishop ordination just two days before.
Our bishop election is strictly confidently. if we publish earlier ur bishop’s would go for court “Stay order. so we conduct a press confernce on friday evening once the court are closed”. give ramban pattam on sat and bishop pattam on monday morning before the court gets open.
Thank you Ajosh. After 86 responses, you have made the comment which really makes the point.
This is what was needed.
Suraj
Ajosh, you are absolutely correct. The news created unnecessary controvesy without any good result
Dear Robin,
If you and like minded people still think that your mother church is Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch and you are a part of it, please refer to Article 34 & 36 of their constitution linked here:
http://cid-d93f13a34a214fcc.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Church%20Records%20^5p^6/Constitution%20of%20Syrian%20Orthodox%20Church%20of%20Antioch.pdf
My only doubt is whether we are inferior to Christians of Arab origin. Does Christianity envisage such a situation? I think Roman church is far better because any cardinal has a fair chance to be elected as Pope irrespective of his color, language or nationality. How can self esteemed people can tolerate this humiliation and discrimination ?
Patriarch group has 31 bishops now; Assuming that Malankara church is a part of church of Antioch how many of them can sit in their episcopal synod?
Unfortunately 99% of our enthusiastic Jacobite brothers are unaware of it.
My dear Jomon Achen,
I refer to your response dated 10 February requesting us-the Indian Orthodox Church-to come back to the fold of Syrian Orthodox Church in Antioch as your solution to solve the church case. Acha, Don’t utter nonsense! You sounded just like the cry of the Israelites in the Wilderness of Sin. “Would we had died, smitten by the Lord in the land of Egypt, when we sat by the pots of meat and ate bread to the full. For you brought us out into this desert to kill this whole assembly with hunger”(Ref :-Exodus 16:3). Ours is an autonomous and autocephalous church after 1912 and has a strong Constitution and a sophisticated system of administration. Why then should we go back to Syria for adminstrative guidance like the people of Israel who wanted to go back to Egypt when they were in desert?. We are quite sure that our God up in heaven is capable of taking us to the promised land -Canaan- where honey and milk flow. What you said about our well-beloved Parumala thirumeni’s loyalty towards the Patriarch mighty be true. It was at a time when we all were under the yoke of the Syrians following the synod of Mulathuruthy. There was no other way but to be loyal. It is for sure if Parumala thirumeni were alive today, he would certainly have told the Syrians to get out. Vattassery thirumeni too has always been loyal to the spiritual supremacy of Patriarch. But he differed only when our right to autonomy was questioned. When we, Indians, were under the British rule, we obeyed to their command. But under the able leadership of Mahatma Gandhi we wanted them to set us free. Now we are independent and has a Constitution of our own and enjoy the freedom of democracy. Yet we maintain cordial relation with the Bristish even today(by being a member in the Common Wealth Countries.) So also, under the spiritual leadership of Vattasseril thirumeni, we wanted freedom of adminstration on temoral matters. Yet we continue maintaining spiritual relations with the Syrian church (by being in the family of the Oriental Orthodox churches)and have no delicacy in accepting the Patriarch as our spiritual father subject to the approval of the Malankara Sabha. This is what happened in 1958. But their colonial and despotic attitude facilitated the estrangement between the Indians and the Syrians. Unfortunately, some of our blood relations like you joined with them without having proper thought. I wonder why you people prefer ‘Arabic servitude’ rather than keeping self -identity. Do you still believe in your age-old dogma that St.Thomas had no ‘Priesthood’? Tell me ,when you have Patriach of Antioch as your Supreme Spiritual head, what is the relevance of having a catholicate(Maphrianate) that you claimed to be established in 1964? Is it just a paraphernalia?
Be senstible and answer me.
With love and prayers,
George Achen,Ireland.
George Achen, Ireland
There are a few of use who are not interested in continuing this blaming game and are looking for a PERMANENT solution to the pitiful situation. Could you please answer this question that I am posing to you for the second time?
If the current situation in the Malankara Church is not resolved through the court system by September 1912 (The 100 year mark of the separation of the two churches), would you be willing to start a movement to halt the current course of actions through the court system and look at a different option to solve the issues?
Binu
Correction to date above:September 2012
Binu
Barnabas’ wishes are fulfilled.Sreshttan Got his dues.Now what are the unwanted comments for.See what will happen on 17/02/2010. Also see the fate of Severios,Coorilos,Ireanius of the metran group.
dear binu if u have sepearate constitution then why u says in that constitution the patriarch of antoich is the superme head of the church
Mother Church is the Church established by St. Thomas in 52 A.D in INDIA and continues through current year 2010 and beyond until the arrival of Our LORD.
Many have stepped onboard this Church or stepped-off during the journey through the ages: And many will.
It was in 1653 A.D that Syrians stepped onboard and helped nourish the Church. That doesn’t mean the ‘Mother Church’ in India is the Antiochian Church. Common sense is sufficient to know that.
The “Mother Church of India” – The Church established by St. Thomas will continue to remember and pray for those who helped us in our journey through this world.
Itty Pothen
Mr. Itty Pothen,
If your statement above is correct why then does this Indian church have no identity of its own? You mentioned that many have stepped on and off the Indian church but why did the Indian Orthodox church adopt EVERY aspect of the Syrian Orthodox Church? If there was a different Church prior to 1653 why is it that there is NOTHING remaining to that effect (a liturgy, vestments)? Why is every sacrament and for that matter every aspect of the St. Thomas church in India an exact copy of the Syrian Orthodox Church? So there is definitely more to it than your explanation above.
Binu
Based on the same freedom that George achen mentions, every Indian citizen is entitled to the freedom to choose a religion, or church (or constitution) and the extending the same democratic right to parishes. (The freedom that Mr.Pothen, HG.Athanasios and Barnabas thirumeni exercised)
Beyond all that, the freedom that Christ promised us, the freedom from sin attained through following his commandment to love thy neighbor/brother, manifested through the willingness to count thy brother greater than himself, that’s the only Christian virtue that the laymen from both churches, people who love this church demand of the leaders of both factions.
The era of litigation and street fights should end. Our great church deserves and should demand that greatness from our priests and leaders. Blaming and arguing each other are not the Christian way. We need leaders who teach the love of Christ who live (at least try to live) like Christ.
The change, and the prayer to show us the way to change should come from every member, of both churches. I personally commit to pray every single day of this great lent to change the hearts of our people, our priests, our bishops, the bishops who are going to be elected in IOC so that our churches will become beacons of light at least to the next generation (and also to forgive those who led my generation through litigation and street fights and allowed my savior’s name to be ridiculed by the Hindus and Muslims and my church to be ridiculed by the non-orthodox)
May God give all of us the renewed faith and wisdom during this Lenten season.
-Abu, Saint Paul
Dear Binu,
I do not intend to re-invent the wheel again; to get into a lengthy discussion.
Your question and the answers to it have been discussed not just a few but a number of times in prominent internet forums by eminent personalities. Moreover a lot of books on your ‘Question in context’ are available on the Church History in India, written by famed scholars and historians that are available in all leading libraries. Again, I specify a number of books by prominent personalities and I don’t point to a book for you, because if I do that then you’ll say I’m prejudiced. Take time, read as much of all the books without bias, do an analysis and satisfy your-self and the Good LORD will guide you to find answers to your questions.
Bye,
Itty Pothen.
Dear Geroge Achan,
Will you please explain the cocept of Autocephaly ( which itself is A BYZYNTINE CONCEPT according to H. G. Dr. Thomas Mor Athanasius, a Member of your Synod) against the background of MLANKARA ARCHDIOCESE, for which the “SRIAN CHRISTIAN ASSOSSIATION” formed as per your 1934 constitution ( See section four of your constitution in English from this official ink http://malankaraorthodoxchurch.in/images/stories/File/MalankaraSabha/The%20Constitution.pdf
A Report Card of the Bishops Of the Indian Orthodox Church.
Name Diocese Spiritual Life Administration,Remarks
Baselios Didymos I Catholicos Good Good Ripe Old Age,Time for Retirement.
Paulose Milithios Kunnamkulam Good Average Catholicos Designate,
Cannot Govern independantly needs support.
Geevarghese Osthathios Retired Good Average,
Missionary Zeal even in old age.
Mathews Barnabas North America Good Average, Strict Disciplinarian
Thomas Athanasios Chengannur Average Best,Proud but Best Organizer and Politician,Greed for position.
Geevarghese Ivanios Kottayam Good Good,Best Horticulturist
Thomas Athanasios Dr Kandanadu Average Average,Best Orator
Kuriakose Clemis Thumpamon Good Average,Silent Spectator
Zakariah Anthonios Kollam Good Average,Silent Spectator
Mathews Severios Kandanadu Good Best ,Proud but Strict Disciplinarian and best politician,greed for position.
Job Philexenos Delhi Good Good,Sick and Bedridden.
Geevarghese Coorilos Mumbai Average Poor
Poor Goveranance,Frequent Flier,Greed for position.
Yuhanon Milithios Trishur Poor Poor,Best Orator
Zakariah Nicholovas North America Average Average Best assistance
Paulose Pachomios Mavelikara Average Poor Poor,Goveranance
Yacoub Irenios Kochi Average Poor Poor Goveranance,Greed for position.
Gabriel Gregorios Thiruvandupuram Average Poor
Poor Goveranance,but a Disciplinarian
Yuhanon Chrisostomos Nirnam Good Average
Best Orator but not upto the level of Dr Osthatios in Mission field.
Zakariah Theophilos Malabar Average Average Best Orator
Yuhanon Policarpos Angamaly Average New Incumbent
Likely to succeed everywhere
Mathews Theodosius Idduki Average New Incumbent Best in canvasing
Joseph Dynasios Kolkotta Average New Incumbent Best Teacher/Orator
Abraham Epiphanios Sultan Battery Average New Incumbent Only external apperance,Greed for position.
Mathews Themotios London Average New Incumbent
Likely to succeed everywhere
Alexios Eusebios South America Average New Incumbent A Future Catholicos
Yuhanon Dioscorous Chennai Average New Incumbent
Childish Attitude but will succeed everywhere.
Got details from a firm orthodox believer from my home town
Kunjachen,Pallivadukal,Manarcaud,Kottayam.
Jacobites will never use H.G Barnabas thirumeni as a tool to capture any catholicos faction churches. Its a human beings freedom to choose which church he wants to. No one can question that.
Just one more question, did H.G taken any common property of catholicos faction along with him when he joined jacobites?
But at the same time u guyz see what MVPA Athasious thirumeni and Milithious thirumeni done and what they are doing now.
Even an LKG kid can answer this
Hi dear brother’s and Achan’s,
realy , Is any one got any life for God? what you are writing? I am asame and pity for these kind of Priest we had(both facation).
please
“Experience the power of remission of sins and peaceful life through the shed blood of Christ on the cross and fulfill the holiness and ministry of Jesus Christ to prepare for the rapture at the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ
Best Wishes
Jobi
the fact of the orthdox belivers is that they need patriarch in constitution but canno recoginize him in public
the dispute is really related to faith than any other matter.
while jacobites believe in the spirtual supremacy and grace of patriarch indian orthodox people dont like this .
now in disputed churches which are in control of either faction those who want to continue their belief have to change their faith according to the control of church.
hi,
Due the politic in IOC , Malankara rith was formed
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